The "Legend" of Dragonslayer Ornstein
Mar. 18, 2017The “Legend” of Dragonslayer Ornstein
Since the first time he jumped down from the balcony and into our hearts, very few Dark Souls characters have captured the imagination of fans likeOrnsteinhas. If for some reason you’re unaware, Ornstein and his pal Smough guarded the Cathedral and Chamber of the Princess in the first Dark Souls game. And then we killed them of course. It’s the only way to get theLordvesseland reach the first flame.
What a spectacularly shitty answer that would be though wouldn’t it? It almost sends the message, “don’t bother connecting dots, because…infinite universes.” Sure it’s a valid response, but talk about unsatisfying for us lore nuts.
Wouldn’t it be great if someone had acrazy fan theorythat connected all the dots to this lore breaking conundrum?
Weeeeelllllllpppp…don’t mind if I do…
If you’ve seenThe Prestige(good movie) you should be reminded to always think of the simplest answer first. Remarkably, the answer there might be the same one here. Don’t be Hugh Jackman, accept what’s right in front of your nose…
Here’s our dilemma, we have two sets of events that seemingly involve the same duo (Ornstein and Smough) that seem impossible, or at least incredibly difficult, to reconcile. In other words, how do two people become involved in what appear to be two sets of incompatible events? Simple. There are two sets of Ornstein and Smough. And I don’t mean two universes. Two sets within the same world is what I mean.
To expand, what I’m suggesting is that in Dark Souls we probably did kill the real deal. I’m further suggesting then, that in Dark Souls 3, the items are describing warriors who took up the mantle for Ornstein and Smough. To make it easy to keep it straight, I’ll call the DS1 guys “Ornstein” and “Smough.” The DS3 guys I’ll call “Notstein” and “Smope.” The gist is pretty easy; despite the Lordvessel having been given out, Anor Londo still needed protecting. It was felt by someone (probably Gwyndolin, which I’ll get to) that this would be most effective if it appeared the two remaining great warriors hadn’t fallen after all. Sort of like Wesley becoming the Dread Pirate Roberts inThe Princess Bride. Later the mantle is handed to Inigo. The legend is more important than who is actually in the suit if you will.
That’s my story. Does it sound crazy? Yes. So here’s some evidence:First off, note the inconsistencies I stated before. We cannot get the Lordvessel in the first game without killing Ornstein and Smough. In Dark Souls 3, it’s heavily implied that someone retrieved the Lordvessel since they talk a bit about different entities succeeding Gwyn. However, complicating that is the fact that SOMEONE left to find NK and left Ornstein’s gear lying about in DS3. So right off the bat, Dark Souls 3 provides evidence that both sets of incompatible events occurred. There’s also evidence that someone who was “attuned” to Smough was present whenAldrichbarged in to eat Gwyndolin. What makes me say that you ask? Good question. When do boss armor sets become available in Dark Souls games? After the boss in question’s soul is in our possession, right? You get one shot at naming whose armor become available after killing Aldrich. Hint: Smough’s. Yes that’s a terrible hint. I’m not good with riddles. Anyway, this could be solid evidence that Smough was present and eaten by Aldrich before he hit up Gwyndolin. By taking Aldrich’s essence, we also get Smough’s. What I’m getting at is that Dark Soul 3 provides ample evidence of both sets of events.
Let’s lay some more groundwork. We know from theArtorias of the Abyss DLCthatSifwas givenArtorias‘ gear. However, WE get to kill Artorias and take his soul, Sif doesn’t get that (yes I know it can be handed to Ciaran, but since Sif is the same regardless of our choice my point stands). After a couple hundred years of carrying his sword, Sif’s Soul is so attuned to Artorias’ that we can forge his gear from her soul (yes I think Sif is a she-wolf). This is some evidence that a powerful being’s inherent nature is somewhat fluid and transferable outside the criteria of “I just stole your soul.” Note that what we find in Dark Souls 3 is GEAR associated with Ornstein and Smough. We don’t ever actually see them in DS3, nor do we collect their soul directly.
Let’s keep going. In Dark Souls, the Four Knights ofGwynall have a few items each to describe them. I won’t go into everyone’s items, but Ornstein’s items are remarkable in that he’s the only knight where tentative language is used to describe his feats.
Here’s one example about Artorias from theWolf Ring:“Artorias had an unbendable will of steel, and was unmatched with a greatsword.”The wording is definitive, with no wiggle room for questioning. It’s worded that he was for certain a stubborn dude, and unrivaled with a greatsword.
Here’s the background info on Ornstein from his gear:–Leo Ring:“Hislugged spearis said to havesliced a boulder in two.”–Ornstein’s Armor:“Ornsteinis believed to bethe captain of the Four Knights.”–As dn1nd pointed out, hisspearcalls him“adragonslayer”which is also interesting by implying he may not be unique (Dragon Slayer Armour agrees)
Note the bold wording. We’re not as sure about Ornstein’s status as we are the other knights. Someone SAID his spear split a boulder. Someone BELIEVES he’s the captain. Unlike Artorias’ gear, there’s room for doubt.
Fast forward to DS3. Looking at Notstein’s items:–Dragonslayer Spear:“Crossspearassociated with Ornsteinthe Dragonslayer. A weapon of the gods imbued with the strength of lightning.”–Dragonslayer helm:“Goldenlion helmassociated with Dragonslayer Ornstein, from the age of gods, and imbued with the strength of lightning.In the dragonless age, this knight, who long guarded the ruined cathedral, left the land in search of the nameless king.”–Leo Ring:“Ringassociated with Dragonslayer Ornstein, one of the Four Knights of Gwyn, the First Lord.Ornstein was the first knight of the sun’s eldest born, and his cross spearis said to havepierced scales made of stone.”
And Smope’s items:–Smough’s Hammer:“Twistedgreat Hammerassociated with Smough, the last knight to remain at his post, guarding the ruined cathedral.Restore HP while attacking, a carryover from Smough’s past as an executioner.”–Smough’s Set:“Grotesquearmorassociated with Smough, the last knight to stand in defense of the ruined cathedral.”
To tie the story full circle, look at events after we find them.
To answer the first question; Gwyndolin may have sent him. Either as a warning (“Aldrich is eating Gods, look out”) or to seek help. Gwyndolin fled his normal area and evidence supports him hiding behind Smope. He could have suspected how much of a threat Aldrich really was. To me however, the more likely scenario is to seek help. I imagine he handed Notstein a note to deliver that said “Hey big bro, dad is gone so no worrying about him disapproving of your life choices. Some cleric is trying to eat me. Come home. Please bring milk.”
“Miracle wielded by Lord Gwyn’s firstborn. Boost right weapon with rays of Sun.The power of sunlight, manifested as lightning, is very effective against dragons.When the eldest son was stripped of his deific status, he left this on his father’s coffin, perhaps as a final farewell.”
Is this the “real” story? Hell if I know. But it’s a fun thought. And way more entertaining than “Well, uh, there must be different universes or sumfin’ I reckon.”
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Well, to be fair, only the bones are stated
https://darksouls.wiki.fextralife.com/Smough's+Hammer
Didn’t know Smough was a maneater.
Isn’t Aldritch from Anor Londo(or at least Irithyll)? Why does Aldritch have the Small Doll?
I like the idea that Smough is Aldritch. Both ate men, and both are from Anor Londo (I’m going to assume that Irithyll is just the modern name for the city of Anor Londo).
My overarching theory on all of this:
The Ornstien and Smough from DS1 are Illusions created by Gwyndolin to “protect” the lord vessel. In actuality, Gwyndolin would want a chosen undead to come take the Lord Vessel, to succeed his father, but I doubt that he would want his actual knights to die. (Also, I doubt he would be willing to die either, so the optional boss is just another illusion of himself.)
Furthermore, Ornstein and Smough (and Qwyndolin) are of the “god” race. These guys are insanely powerful. We are talking about a guy who killed arch dragons that FROM won’t even let us fight in the game. (See the dragon on Arch Dragon Peak for size) I highly doubt a chosen undead could have easily defeated 2 full fledged “gods” at the same time when the final boss is a mere husk of a “god”.
I think Gwyndolin took a shard of Ornstien’s and Smough’s Soul, and used them as fuel for illusory “gate keepers” to the Lord Vessel to act as a test of strength for the Chosen Undead.
The Ornstein in Dark Souls 2 is just another shard of the original Ornstein. DS2 Ornstein is guarding the Way of the Blue, which is effectively the Darkmoon Blades. Maybe when this faction of the DMBs went to Drangleic, Gwyndolin took another shard of Ornstein’s Soul to make a guardian. (It is rumored that Gwynevere went to Drangleic, so perhaps the goal was to give her a bodyguard.)
Later, Pontiff Sullivan climbs out of the Painted world and conquers Anor Londo (perhaps renaming the city to Irithyll) with Aldritch’s help. Aldritch/Smough is upset about the whole “being burned alive thing” (Ludleth has some dialog describing the pain of linking the fire). Aldritch eats Gwyndolin, and Sullivan declares himself Pontiff.
Back to Ornstein.
This is where it gets weird, but you can ignore this if you like as it has no real bearing on the above theory, aside from not explaining the lack of a body for Ornstein in DS3.
- A guardian of the Lord Vessel.
I totally get that. I did actually start looking at the possibility of them being the same, but couldn’t find anything more than cannibalism. But it was the first place my mind went
I don’t claim being able to prove any connection between Aldrich and Smough, beyond the thematical resemblances.
I just like the idea of Smough actually being a black gel, manipulating a golden armor.
I actually wondered if Aldrich was a Smough variant, but I can’t find any support other than eating people. In fact, they actually have contradictory paths. Aldrich with the church and Smough still being tied to Anor Londo as a ”Knight.” I’m not saying it’s impossible, but that’d be a lot to reconcile.
Primarily there’d be a matter of conflicting timelines if that’s the case. DS3 gives a decent view of Aldrich’s events which culminate in Anor Londo, but are a pretty well established path starting elsewhere. Smough on the other hand, according to DS3 anyway, never left Anor Londo.
So then, there is a good deal of evidence to think they’re separate. And to put the pieces together again, Aldrich’s path ended in Anor Londo in the area we’re used to seeing Smough in. DS3 lore says he stayed there the whole time. Yet we never see him there.
In other words, he’s supposed to be there but there’s no trace. In the place you’d expect him (according to the items anyway) is an entity that is on a warpath to eat Gods. One in which he’s started to become successful as he clearly has Gwyndolin.
TL;DR: If we take items even a little on faith, Smough not being present is contrary to what’s stated, which is a path that’s established to be quite different than Aldrich’s. While there could be an intended parallel to explain the presence of Smough’s armor after beating Aldrich, that doesn’t adequately explain the elephant in the room. DS3 says Smough never left the Cathedral. So, the simplest solution I feel is what I presented. He remained faithful to his post, and we know for a fact his post came under assault from one of the more powerful entities around.
You conclude that Aldrich ate Smough, and therefore releases his armor upon death.
I think the connection is simply that they’re both depraved maneaters, and both linked to Anor Londo.
A lot of possibilities exist, and it could even be that Aldrich is an evolved form of the surviving Smough.
Yeah, I have an even crazier guess involving Heide’s and that Notstein. But the premise is the same regarding characters. There’s been a series of heroes/warriors that have taken to the mantle
This makes a lot of sense. It also explains (sort of) the Dragonslayer in DS2. (if we’re considering that canon)
